Learning music with Strudel

(terryds.notion.site)

363 points | by terryds 6 days ago

27 comments

  • DigitalDopamine 8 hours ago
    Loved playing with it! https://strudel.cc/?qVv8Cr0OD6cc
    • xrd 8 hours ago
      This is so incredible, musically, visually and didactically. Absolutely amazing. Absolutely amazing.
    • abhinavmir 5 hours ago
      I shed an actual tear. I dreamed of days like this. I got close, building a small language for generating generic music, but with decay, sawtooth and stuff? It's a functional DAW.
    • simonw 5 hours ago
      That demo is excellent. You can uncomment some lines at the bottom and hit alt+enter (or click the Update button) to add visualization effects too.
    • rodrigodlu 7 hours ago
      Wow, I started learning recently, I didn't know you can change the theme.

      Also this music brings really good vibes!

      I get more motivated when I can see it working directly and change some code here and there!

      Thanks for sharing.

    • alabhyajindal 6 hours ago
      Amazing! Though I can't get the theme to stop changing while the music is playing. Is there a setting I'm missing?
      • DigitalDopamine 5 hours ago
        Set colors to false on line 133
      • yayitswei 6 hours ago
        Looks like the theme changes are part of the arrangement (see lines 135-149).
    • oceansky 1 hour ago
      Not recommended for people prone to seizures
    • mettamage 6 hours ago
      Well that song was my digital dopamine for the day. Couldn’t stop bobbing my head while in a busy train
    • smrq 7 hours ago
      That's absolutely sick. I love seeing a full arrangement like this as opposed to destructive live coding--that's cool too, but I don't really vibe with it as a workflow. Definitely taking some inspiration from this.
    • chrislo 7 hours ago
      Love this! Patterning the theme is such a great idea.
    • jamesfmilne 1 hour ago
      Bravo!
    • dallen33 5 hours ago
      This is absolutely insane.
    • globalnode 1 hour ago
      That made me smile, well done and thanks Lennard! (do recommend setting colors = False though)
    • l0c0b0x 7 hours ago
      Great work! I'm saving this one (I have it in a loop rn on my big screen).
    • mazswojejzony 7 hours ago
      This is great! I'm not really into electro, but I really like this one!
    • butlike 5 hours ago
      You made an entire performance. Good, good job
      • squarefoot 4 hours ago
        I found that annoying on the editor, but if used on a 2nd screen to build graphics programmatically (fractals, etc), or via an external port to drive RGB LEDs arrays or matrices, results could be spectacular. Imagine fractals driven by music or a giant spectrum analyzer made of LED strips.
    • ubidefeo 6 hours ago
      love how you change the style as it plays. the custom font is a nice touch :)
    • josittas 8 hours ago
      Very cool! Thank you for sharing :)
    • lioeters 8 hours ago
      That was a lovely experience.
    • WhyOhWhyQ 5 hours ago
      Fantastic!
  • pragma_x 29 minutes ago
    I've been following this project with great interest.

    Quite possibly one of the most interesting things is just how competent the REPL is. It does some things that no other programming environment does in a prompt, all centered around real-time processing:

    - All code in the prompt is being constantly evaluated - What parts of expressions are currently in use are highlighted - Visualization widgets sit side-by-side with the code

    That last one is playfully rendered as pseudo-TUI "graphics", but is also presented with no borders or chrome around it. That's in sharp contrast to notebooks like Jypyter or Mathematica. They use minimal screen real-estate which also minimizes scrolling. If you look at videos of using this live, the ability to navigate the REPL quickly is crucial for performances.

    So it's a lot like a kind of step-wise debugger, only more minimalist and moving at the (slow) speed of the music.

    Ever since seeing Strudel, I've wondered what various programming sandboxes would be like if they could visually demonstrate operations in slow-motion.

  • simonw 5 hours ago
    I've been seeing a few links to Strudel recently so I went digging to see how old the project is - looks like it launched in April 2022 https://loophole-letters.vercel.app/strudel

    It came out of the same team as Tidal Cycles, a Haskell live-coding music tool which was first released around 2009. https://tidalcycles.org/docs/around_tidal/tidal_history/

    • pragma_x 27 minutes ago
      IIRC, that team are also (now) live-music-coding veterans, which in turn has informed how Strudel is built. It's not just a project that does stuff, it's a pretty well crafted instrument that is ideal for these performances.

      As an engineer, I love letting the requirements shape the solution, but this is just on a whole other level.

    • Sammi 4 hours ago
      Such a good example of why everything is becoming js. Because it's where the users are. Anything that isn't in js will just languish comparatively.

      Everything is becoming js because everything is becoming js.

      • tormeh 4 hours ago
        Have you taken a look at how to install the Haskell variant? It's a full-on recipe, or a docker container. I'd take a desktop application over a website any day, but that was not on the menu. It was an SPA vs a devops exercise. Of course the SPA wins.
        • Sammi 3 hours ago
          Yes. The web wins on deployment every time.
          • nightski 2 hours ago
            Steam wins for games imho.
  • faxmeyourcode 9 hours ago
    I've run across more and more strudel musicians (developers?) doing a kind of live coding performance art and posting clips on tiktok and reels. It's really entertaining to watch. I've been meaning to dabble in it.
    • ashwindharne 6 hours ago
      I went to a basement party/rave recently where the DJ was live-coding strudel, was incredibly cool to see in person. people would watch them type out new lines in anticipation of a beat drop

      Pretty cool to see this post, I had no idea where to find more info about it!

    • grantmuller 7 hours ago
      Another live-coding environment that is quite nice (Haskell-based) is TidalCycles: https://tidalcycles.org

      I wrote a whole album of material about 10 years ago with it, just remastered/re-released it. It's a fun way to write music while on an airplane!

      • lomase 6 hours ago
        Strudel is TidalCycles but in javascript.
        • cpill 3 hours ago
          yeah, but TidalCycles doesn't have the interactive code that shows you what is playing or have inline sliders :P
    • xdc0 8 hours ago
      It's fun to watch and somehow more approachable to me than a big program with lots of menus and virtual knobs.
    • ge96 5 hours ago
      Would be curious licensing on music you produce with it eg. can you use it, record the session then put it on YT no copyright.
  • raphar 8 hours ago
    I posted this link, some days ago:

    Coding Trance Music from Scratch (Again) [video]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu5rnQkfO6M

    It´s a well done programming and music performance

    • a1ff00 8 hours ago
      +1 Switch Angels performances
      • Jarmsy 6 hours ago
        Increase the duck attack!
    • illwrks 2 hours ago
      This is an excellent example. It also highlights how if I tried this it would sound terrible as I lack have vocabulary to describe what I want, and how that relates to the code.
    • danvoell 6 hours ago
      this is awesome. The only code instruction video instructions that I have watched that doubled as a song. At first I thought it was the Euro dance hall lyrics and then I realized it was actually the code instructions.
    • l0c0b0x 7 hours ago
      Yeah, thanks for both posts. I love the narration with the live coding (like a conversation with voice and code). If I can get to that level, I'll die a happy man.
    • mbStavola 5 hours ago
      Every time I watch one of her performances, I smile when she says "... with the scope."
    • rudolph9 6 hours ago
      Is this real library/editor/programming-language ?? I don’t see anything on how it’s made?
  • WhyOhWhyQ 6 hours ago
    Let me introduce you to a good time.

    Step 1: https://strudel.cc/workshop/getting-started/ . Click play on coastline" @by eddyflux

    Step 2: Listen for a while

    Step 3: setcps(.75) -> setcps(1.5)

    Step 4: Listen :)

    That is the extent of my strudel knowledge, but damn this is cool.

    • WhyOhWhyQ 5 hours ago
      I was trying to make it automatically randomly choose between the normal speed and twice speed after a long time. I think appending

      .fast(chooseCycles(1, 2).slow(128))

      at the very end does it. But I'm not actually sure. Would a strudel user mind informing me how this is done? Also, I was hoping to make it automatically shift the key, but I couldn't figure it out.

    • a_t48 6 hours ago
      Sadly doesn't even run at all on safari. "Importing a module script failed." :(
      • Towaway69 2 hours ago
        Also worked find on my Safari 18.6

        uBlock/uMatrix perhaps? At least that was for me the issue on Firefox.

      • artimaeis 3 hours ago
        Running fine here on Safari 26.1 (Tahoe 26.1).
      • WhyOhWhyQ 5 hours ago
        NOOOOOO!!!
  • i_gumby 8 hours ago
    There's also a neovim plugin for those who want to play around with this locally https://github.com/gruvw/strudel.nvim ; it essentially launches strudel in a browser but synchronizes the strudel and nvim editors.

    EDIT: fixed link to not have trailing semicolon.

    • rodrigodlu 7 hours ago
      Is there a way (like a CSS rule or something similar) that when you look at the main strudel window, it only shows the piano rolls, punch cards, sliders, etc - but not the code?

      Maybe with just the comments? This would be killer, since I have dual displays, and on one I can just focus on the code, the other one can have all the visual stuff.

      I'm using this plugin, but having the code twice distracts me a lot (but I prefer the original neovim instead the integrated vim mode inside strudel).

      Thanks in advance!

      • ebertucc 7 hours ago
        I'm not using the plugin, but this hides the code in the browser:

        .cm-line span { outline: none !important; color: transparent; background: transparent !important; }

      • i_gumby 7 hours ago
        I've only just started playing around with it, so I don't know enough about it unfortunately. You could open an issue against the repo; the plugin owner might be able to answer your question.
    • timojaask 8 hours ago
    • semi-extrinsic 8 hours ago
      Link has a trailing semicolon and doesn't work - but awesome to have nvim + strudel!
  • proc0 51 minutes ago
    Love Strudel, trying to learn it but inevitably you also need some musical foundation. It's a fascinating blend of specialties. Also I found AI is complete garbage at generating Strudel. Here is my weak attempt at Beethoven:

    <pre> const SCALE = 'C#:minor' const CPM = 56 const SOUND = 'piano'

    $: arrange( [4, n("<-7, 0>.25")], [4, n("<-8, -1>.25")],

      [2, n("<-9, -2>*.5")],
      [2, n("<-11, -4>*.5")],
      
      [4, n("<-10, -3>*.5")],
      
      [4, n("<0, -3, -7>*.25")],
      [4, n("<-1#, -3, -8#>*.25")],
      
      [2, n("<-2, -9>*.5")],
      [2, n("<-6, -13>*.5")],
      
      [4, n("<-3, -10>*.5")],
      
      [4, n("<0, -7>*.25")],
    ).sound(SOUND) .scale(SCALE) .cpm(CPM);

    $: arrange( [8, n("4 7 9")],

      [2, n("5 7 9")], 
      [2, n("5 8b 10")],
      
      [1, n("4*.1 6# 10")], 
      [1, n("4 7 9")],
      [1, n("4 7 8")], 
      [1, n("3 6# 8")],
      
      [1, n("0 2 5")],
      [2, n("2 7 9")],
      [1, n("2 7 9, 11 - - 11")],
      
      [1, n("2 8 10, 11 -")],
      [2, n("2 8 10")],
      [1, n("2 8 10, 11 - - 11")],
    
      [1, n("2 7 9, 11 -")],
      [1, n("2 7 9")],
      [1, n("1 7 10, 12 - -")],
      [1, n("1 7 10")],
    
      [1, n("2 4 9, 11 - -")],
      [1, n("2 4 9")],
      [1, n("3 4 8, 10 - -")],
      [1, n("3 4 8, 13 - -")],
    
      [1, n("2 4 9, 9 -")],
      [3, n("2 4 9")],
    ).sound(SOUND) .scale(SCALE) .cpm(CPM);

    </pre>

  • badmonster 4 hours ago
    Live-coding music environments like Strudel are powerful because they externalize the creative process. When your composition is visible code, you can iterate faster, debug musical ideas, and even collaborate in ways traditional DAWs don't support. Code-as-instrument is genuinely innovative.
  • mvkel 7 hours ago
    I was excited to see this, but then realized only chapter 1 is done out of what ultimately will/should be a 25 chapter tome.

    Strudel docs leave something to be desired as well.

    What I've found to be the most useful so far is to ask an LLM to make a line of whatever: a beat, a synth, etc., tweak it, then layer it.

    It gives a really good sense of how to architect a song file, which is missing from the little snippets in the strudel docs

  • wouterjanl 5 hours ago
    Allow me to use this post to give big kudos to the maintainers of Strudel for having put together a brilliant set of official docs. I found them incredibly well put together and hence really useful to learn. I have played around with Strudel many evenings and I am always amazed about how intuitive Strudel is to create beats and sounds, to the point that I prefer to create music in Strudel over the established DAW software. I would love for there to be a good bridge between producing sounds and beats with Strudel code and structurering and mastering an entire track. This is missing in Strudel since it’s clearly build for a live coding environment. Any tips from users about ways or tools to make this bridge are always welcome!
  • toboramai 2 hours ago
    Besides Strudel, there's also http://glicol.org/. It seems Glicol is more geared towards sound synthesis, while Strudel's sequencer is more powerful.
  • ubidefeo 6 hours ago
    I have submitted a talk for FOSDEM26 on Live Coding Music and Hardware with Strudel and MicroPython. Hope to get in :)
  • mclau153 8 hours ago
    A really great source for this is DJ Dave
  • oceansky 1 hour ago
    I've been trying to compose music with Strudel after some years attempting to play the guitar and the piano.

    This resource is very helpful

  • ubidefeo 5 hours ago
    if you need a 4/4 clicker metronome I crafted this one :) https://strudel.cc/hNV6sevsZERY
  • hamasho 5 hours ago
    Does anyone know if it's possible to run Strudel code on VS Code (or NeoVim)? Tidle Cycles has add-ons where I can play/stop updated code or part of code with ctrl(cmd)-. and ctrl(cmd)-space. I mean, one of Strudel strong point is the browser based rich visualization, but I just want to edit JS code with my favorite editor.
  • dfltr 5 hours ago
    Strudel is dope and a ton of fun, but every single piece of its interface seems determined to confuse people who already know music theory and composition.

    That's not really a point against it, it's a great tool and it's a ton of fun, but I wish there was a way to use it that at least kind of sort of mapped back to traditional music notation, especially rhythm notation.

    • pierrec 5 hours ago
      It would be unergonomic, if not painful, to use a western classical approach to rhythm in a programming environment. Alex McLean, the main author of Tidal/Strudel, is very much into Indian classical, and this is reflected in the approach to rhythm. IMO this is an good choice, and people who know music theory and composition should feel right at home, assuming we're talking about the right theory.

      When it comes to pitch (and I guess we agree on this) Strudel is firmly on the western traditional side. It generally assumes 12-tone equal temperament, uses ABC notation, has built-in facilities to express chords using their classical names...

      Meanwhile I'm over here programming music where I express all frequencies as fractions or monzos. I find this better suited to a music programming environment, but this might be more personal.

  • stuhlmueller 5 hours ago
    Here's a Strudel fork that uses LLMs to turn instructions like "add a bass layer" into code: https://github.com/stuhlmueller/strudel-llm
  • jarth9 6 hours ago
    Strudel is my favorite music coding environment. I mostly play on acoustic instruments but coding music has been really helpful as I try to learn music theory. Being able to just play in the browser without setup helps me focus on the music and less on fiddling with the tool. And it supports vim key bindings!
  • rob74 6 hours ago
    This clip from an 80s spy comedy is probably too obscure to become a meme, but it deserves to be: https://clip.cafe/gotcha-1985/what-this-strudel/
  • rfl890 3 hours ago
    Did anyone else think this article was gonna teach you how to play music using strudel (the food) somehow?
  • bibimsz 1 hour ago
    when AI takes over the world it will communicate with itself with a tonal language communicated in Strudel
  • dprophecyguy 4 hours ago
  • macmac 7 hours ago
    I love this approach to learning music.

    A nitpick: Isn't the below statement wrong? I thought "RolandTR909" was the name of the soundbank which is used for both bd and sd?

    "bd is bass drum (also called kick-drums), sd is snare drum. RolandTR909 is the name of the sound."

  • zitterbewegung 7 hours ago
    Strudel is a great tool and is helping me to make EDM from scratch. There are good tutorials and music that is easy to get started or to make something really interesting.
  • mberning 7 hours ago
    Is there a way to run it completely locally?